January 8, 2021 https://cdn.simplecast.com/audio/2cbc5e69-f285-41ae-b957-b162fe28f88f/episodes/38dd4b8a-cfeb-4189-8c11-785cba394043/audio/b4bd4cb3-7da6-4c9c-b72b-072e18582572/default_tc.mp3