January 15, 2023 https://cdn.simplecast.com/audio/2cbc5e69-f285-41ae-b957-b162fe28f88f/episodes/3528dffc-6ec5-4c36-a90b-f0c5c00309d5/audio/09fcd574-b881-45c8-a2cb-fd733db8520f/default_tc.mp3