January 28, 2024 https://cdn.simplecast.com/audio/2cbc5e69-f285-41ae-b957-b162fe28f88f/episodes/64c49e5d-ac78-42ac-9b99-ddb48280b9c9/audio/b09fe0b1-dd2b-4b24-976a-1de86938a17b/default_tc.mp3