October 15, 2023 https://cdn.simplecast.com/audio/2cbc5e69-f285-41ae-b957-b162fe28f88f/episodes/5f0fa924-1cb4-491f-87ff-35e3cd95041c/audio/fcc4bb23-7fa4-4866-9fdb-df3b24f82373/default_tc.mp3